Talk:Simple Thievery
Comments This seems like a gimmick skill. It sounds fun, but seems pretty useless to me, and a terrible waste of an elite IMO. Arcane echo, this skill and the 2 other thievery skills could amount to a very frustrated opponent. --Midnight08 13:54, 26 September 2006 (CDT) :Emphasis on 'could'. The skill theft spells can steal spells already disabled by another version of the spell. You won't have much use for 5 copies of Orison of Healing, and your foe won't mind losing it for a minute or so. --Shattered Self 14:06, 26 September 2006 (CDT) This only targets non-spells. Arshay Duskbrow 14:24, 26 September 2006 (CDT) :My point still stands that you can't reliably use this and the other thievery skills to shut down an opponent. --Shattered Self 15:34, 26 September 2006 (CDT) heh.. I can't believe it never occured to me to use arcane theivery on shock warriors.. disabling their only KD and giving yourself one O.O (Not a fifty five 23:36, 28 September 2006 (CDT)) :Simple Thievery might, as Shock is a skill, but Arcane Thievery would definitely not. One of the top GvG's a while back had Me/E's stealing Gale from enemy W/E's, back when Gale Warriors were big, with consistency since that's the only spell they carried. Unfortunately, even with Simple Thievery on your bar, the only way to shutdown Shock war's shocks is still "Can't Touch This!". You're more likely to steal one of their many attacks, stances, or Resurrection Signet, by mere probability. Merengue 23:54, 28 September 2006 (CDT) :: Shock is a spell I'm almost poisitve. lemme check. Wow.. nevermind.. could never think of this as a skill lol (Not a fifty five 00:41, 29 September 2006 (CDT)) ::: Arcane theivery had its time when gale warriors were big — Skuld 01:34, 29 September 2006 (CDT) Just copy this with Arcane Echo and target an all-spell player with a res sig, then use the copied on another target of the similar kind :P BANG! Three res sigs, of which two you can use without worries --Angelo :Wow nice idea :) far surpasses echo res sig >.< you get infinite res sigs with this when ya think about it(Not a fifty five 20:35, 7 October 2006 (CDT)) ::Or you get to pressure a boon/prot with no COP in his skill bar. *eg* (T/ ) 21:35, 7 October 2006 (CDT) When you Thievery someone's res sig and use it, when they get it back, it's still unused, right? :Thievery disables skills under Thievery's conditions, not the conditions of the actual skill. Therefore Res Sig shouldn't remain disabled if it was used by the person who stole it. (Terra Xin 05:49, 24 October 2006 (CDT)) Can this steal Dervish forms? ~ansi :What would the use be? The form would only last 15 seconds. --Curse You 21:09, 21 November 2006 (CST) Yes, this can steal forms. It's really not practical as it would only be good at disabling the use of the form for Simple Thievery's duration. Plus the skill taken is random. I don't think using a form for 15 seconds is a big advantage, but who knows, maybe disabling one for 30+ may be? --RedFeather 21:42, 26 November 2006 (CST) ::It can definitely steal Avatar of X skills; the boss with Simple Thievery stole and immediately used Avatar of Lyssa the first time I fought him. That hurt! :) Issa Dabir 07:47, 18 March 2007 (CDT) As with Signet of Humility, attempting to cast Simple Thievery on an invalid target will return an inappropriate failure message: "That target has no spells to steal." (my emphasis) This is not a serious or particularly confusing oversight, but I was momentarily baffled after tossing Simple Thievery at a Corsair Mind Reader (mesmer) expecting to receive that failure message and instead succeeding in stealing... Irresistible Blow! Had the devs planted wacky skills within mob skill bars as a joke? Would I be able to steal Healing Signet from Abbadon? Then it dawned on me that casting Simple Thievery on an enemy who has themselves just succeeded in casting Simple Thievery will result in stealing the stolen skill, which, in this case, was a hammer attack a Corsair Mind Reader had swiped from poor Devona. Possibilities emerge of pointless, monumentally convoluted builds centered on using Mind Readers as switchboards to re-reroute various skills from one player to another. Note that Mind Readers can steal Signet of Capture, but the targeted player cannot "steal it back". --clubs 17:21, 3 December 2006 (CST) I think this has the name Bane of Assasins on it, as it would break their chain easily, and for up to 30+ seconds too! Assassins rarely have any non-spell skills that's not an attack skill, and stealing it just hurts their effectivity a lot as it breaks their attack chain. Mister abc 21:58, 14 January 2007 (CST) If you use this on, say, Mallyx the Unyielding, you would get no skill in return. However, I'm curious about one thing... Does the monster's skill still get disabled? If it does, does this mean you can completely shut down any monster that uses only monster skills by spamming this elite? Jayemji 8:00, 11 March 2007 (PST) : I don't think it would. After all, it disables only skills that it steals. None stolen - none disabled. ~ Nilles (msg) 06:32, 17 May 2007 (CDT) :Are you sure? How do you know it doesn't disable a skill first, and then steal it? In that case, I would think it would. Jayemji 1:54, 21 May, 2007 (PST) :Testing on a Terrorweb Dryder confirms that you can't even cast Simple Thievery if the target only has SPELLS and monster skill. This "elite" spell can only be cast on targets that have player-owned skills. This information should really be added to the NOTES section so that no one else makes the mistake of assuming this "elite" spell has any real power to it. I'd propose that it be considered L.A.M.E. or bugged ...atleast in PvE as it almost always "steals" only the first Skill in the enemy's virtual skill bar, often the same skill Twice when echoing this "elite" spell; making it worthless against most Nec-Spikers and Heavy-Hitting melees which are set up to use less deadly skills first. --'ilr' "Stolen" is just a term to fit in with the skill's description. What the skill (like many others that "steal") really does is disable the skill and you gain a skill, you are not removing their skill from their bar to yours as such. King Neoterikos 02:28, 18 July 2007 (CDT) Don't forget about PvE, this skill might work good dealing against Bison from eotn. I never used it, but just exciting a possibility. Capping Possibilities? Is it possible to say, have a friend come along with you bringing only one non-spell skill and then have it stolen then kill the boss before it expires to capture it? I think I remember this kind of thing happening with Echo, the boss would have 2 of the same skill and you'd have to wait until it expired until you could cap echo. Of course echo takes just another skill that the boss already has while simple thievery can take one of your heroes... If it worked like this you could cap pretty much anything you want with your heroes and balthazar faction and I could finally cap Golden Skull Strike... although I think now echo and what not now expires upon dying, so it might not work afterall... I can't test for capping possibilities quite yet, but I can say that the "Copy skills like Echo end on death" is wrong. I was out on Perdition Rock just a little while ago, and happened to find the Echo boss with /Me secondary and a cap sig (for whatever strange reason >.>). He echo'd something before dying, and when I looked at the capture window, there were indeed two identical skills listed. So at least until the latest, most recent huge updates, Copy skills stay copied after death. Maybe not for players though. (T/ ) Well, I just went and capped this, and I think that the Talk:Midshipman Morolah is correct. Simple Thievery seems to revert back to itself once he is killed. But at the same time, I also found that Simple Thievery can steal a Signet of Capture. I wonder if that means Morolah can cap skills from a dead Mesmer player? (T/ ) 11:30, 23 July 2007 (CDT) :You can only cap skills from bosses. Despite what mesmers players want you to think, they are not bosses. StatMan 23:46, 14 August 2007 (CDT) ::Of course we're not bosses, we're GODS. The Imperialist ::: 4 shizzle! (I couldn't help but reply to this) Zulu Inuoe 14:11, 6 November 2007 (UTC) Siege Turtles Can you cap Siege Turtle Attack, Arcane Echo it and blast it back? --BH :You can't steal monster skills. --Fyren 01:48, 9 February 2007 (CST) ::It would be cool if u could..Base Defense M s4 23:11, 14 May 2007 (CDT) :::You can't use spells on base defenders. Besides, as soon as you get withing spell range they would just use Base Defense. --Curse You 02:21, 17 May 2007 (CDT) ::::A siege turtle is no base defender. A siege turtle needs more than 1 hit to kill you, and they are in different battles. Dragnmn 12:39, 26 May 2007 (CDT) :::::Actually, Siege Turtles never hit you, they only cast a skill. --Curse You 06:46, 27 May 2007 (CDT) Pet Thief Would be funny if this skill could steal a Ranger's pet. --DEATHWING 18:58, 14 June 2007 (CDT) : They should totally do that. If you steal Charm Animal, you temporarily steal their pet too. That would be so awesome. --Heelz 19:07, 14 June 2007 (CDT) :: Never would. If Charm Animal gets disabled, nothing happens. Even if Charm Animal gets removed from your skill bar, nothing happens (apart from not being able to turn it in at the pet collector). ~ Nilles (msg) 19:10, 14 June 2007 (CDT) :::Let's say you're a Me/Mo (just an example, bear with me) and you don't have any other second professions unlocked for that character. Now go and steal "Charm Animal" from Salke Fur Friend (easy to find) or another enemy with CA. Then run to the nearest wild animal and use CA on it. What will happen??? Seb2net 11:31, 25 June 2007 (CDT) ::::You would cap it until you next zoned. Lord of all tyria 11:35, 25 June 2007 (CDT) ::::: Unless you've already been Me/R and had a pet already, I guess. ~ Nilles (msg) I assume (now this is just me thinking) that you would get the pet for the alotted time, then lose it. However, when you do become a secondary ranger, you would already have a pet since you already used CA on one (even though you weren't a ranger previously). King Neoterikos 02:31, 18 July 2007 (CDT) :What if you're already a Me/R and have a pet, but haven't equipped CA. You then steal CA from Salke (or whoever)... then what? Pet pops up out of nowhere? - (snō hwīt tăn) [sic] 03:13, 16 September 2007 (CDT) ::Don't think so, Pets only load when you leave an outpost with Charm Animal equipped...I don't think that adding/removing it while already in an explorable area does anything. Otherwise, all those times where you get "Temporary PvE Skill" (like Disarm Trap) and you replace CA, your pet should disappear. But it doesn't. (T/ ) 03:18, 16 September 2007 (CDT) :::So....if you are a Me/R and already have a pet Moa named Fred, if you steal Charm Animal, you do not get to use Fred. My next question is....if you steal Charm Animal, then charm a White Tiger, and name that White Tiger Fred, will Fred ride Fred? Fred's ridin Fred. --DEATHWING 04:11, 19 September 2007 (CDT) Charm Animal wouldn't work as you would already have a pet. King Neoterikos 04:56, 20 September 2007 (CDT) :Even while the pet isn't with you? Zulu Inuoe 14:09, 6 November 2007 (UTC) ::*Pounds his head in the desk in confusion* 193.91.164.176 02:21, 18 February 2008 (UTC) :::I love the idea here, but sadly, this only lets you cap a skill if you interrupt it. As no mob will ever be USING Charm Animal when you run across him, the point is sadly moot. (Yes, this is several months after the last update.) Glasswalker 20:18, 13 May 2008 (UTC) ::::Well if we're doing the responding-several-months-later thing, I point you to the Yetis of Pongmei Valley. Qing Guang 16:28, 27 November 2008 (UTC) Error On Notes or Messages Is it me or the description of the spell says " a random NON-Spell" and the notes talk about Error Messages that specifie "Target has no Spell to steal"?66.131.15.84 00:48, 3 August 2007 (CDT) ::Thats already been noted *Points to bottom of notes section* :P The Imperialist :::LEEEEEEEEROOOOOOY --DEATHWING 00:49, 3 August 2007 (CDT) ::::xDD The Imperialist Will this disable monster skills? I realise that you can't steal any monster skills, but will this still disable them? This could come in very handy when fighting a boss. Bluespike 5 02:09, 26 September 2007 (CDT) :Most (most not all though) monster skills aren't able to be disabled. So it may be possible to disable those few that can be effected [[User:Thoughtful|'Thoughtful']] 12:17, 11 December 2007 (UTC) Image is the image a person grabbing someone's underwear? Lost-Blue 03:44, 11 February 2008 (UTC) :It seems to be the strap to a backpack. 03:45, 11 February 2008 (UTC) ::I wonder if someone can blow it up, without it coming up pixelated. Lost-Blue 03:51, 11 February 2008 (UTC) ::: 03:57, 11 February 2008 (UTC) ::::Is that a pair of underwear? WEDGIE! --Gimmethegepgun 03:57, 11 February 2008 (UTC) :::::After further investigation, I have decided that it is indeed someone's tightie whities. 04:00, 11 February 2008 (UTC) ::::::lol Lost-Blue 04:01, 11 February 2008 (UTC) ::::::: Ffs ppl stealing each others underwear in GW :p Frantic 12:14, 7 March 2008 (UTC) ::::::::Simple thievery indeed. J Striker 12:18, 7 March 2008 (UTC) :::::::::It is an image of someone's face, you can only see the nose and their hood is being pulled off. Dean Harper 05:16, 29 March 2008 (UTC) WTF? http://img171.imageshack.us/my.php?image=gw192js9.png Someone stole siege turtle attack with simple thievery in CM. Complete overkill. --Dark Paladin X 21:53, 6 March 2008 (UTC) :If this is real, then this skill is now made of win and awesome. If only Twisting Jaws was interruptable. Seb2net 22:12, 6 March 2008 (UTC) ::This is going to get nerf'd so fast QQ Yatesinater 22:39, 6 March 2008 (UTC) :::Amen to that man, it would overkill PvE as well.--68.162.153.160 22:43, 6 March 2008 (UTC) :::It's real, you can only use the siege attack once before simple thievery ends though ::::I want to test this with the great destroyer's skills :D 72.144.228.134 22:40, 6 March 2008 (UTC) :::: against the great destroyer it throws an err7 at you when you try to use lava wave, excellent! Obiequiet 23:50, 6 March 2008 (UTC) :::::I want to test it against base defenders :P -- (Talk) ( ) 22:45, 6 March 2008 (UTC) Cannot cast spells on base defenders =\ Yatesinater 23:26, 6 March 2008 (UTC) ::::::It is, at 15 dom you can actually get 2 attacks off with it. Use serpent's quickness for more jollies. Duncan Dragoon 22:57, 6 March 2008 (UTC) ::::::::Lol this is a programation error, you cant normally steal monster skills. lol I love this though ahah... Big Bow 22:59, 6 March 2008 (UTC) :Cough, Claim Resource, cough. --BlueNovember 23:24, 6 March 2008 (UTC) ::You have to use it on an enemy ghost though. --Shadowcrest 23:25, 6 March 2008 (UTC) :::Courtyard, Hoh cap points? Would rape either. --BlueNovember 23:37, 6 March 2008 (UTC) ::::So far - it has been tested on Division, Great Destroyer skills, Base Defense.... etc, etc. PvE skills designed for monsters crashes the client, rofl, so says the people who try it out. Dual bear-ursan form is the most imba PvE build out for the next couple of hours. Base defense... invulnerability ruins it, so you can't get it. And I just fired a siege turtle attack. Lulz. But the lag is as bad as ever... — Nova — ( ) 00:44, 7 March 2008 (UTC) :::I've been doing testing. You can steal Bear Form, Mandragor Charge, Siege Turtle Attack, Kournan Siege. This are confirmed and have no issues. The ones I would assume you can steal without issues would be brutal mauling, giant stomp, impossible odds, that kind of stuff. The stuff that doesn't do monster special kinds of things that players can't actually do, like metamorphosis and stuff. Duncan Dragoon 01:04, 7 March 2008 (UTC) This is fixed already in the last patch around 7-8PM eastern. If someone else can confirm, remove the bug note in the article. --208.120.169.109 01:52, 7 March 2008 (UTC) I was vanquishing on my LDoA when the second update came about, and I didn't update because I had a feeling something silly was fixed. And there it was, I took Simple Thievery and tested it on a bunch of stuff. I posted a thread about it in a friendly guild's forum, feel free to take a gander at the screenshots: http://www.guardsofthegate.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=2624 76.105.214.102 06:19, 7 March 2008 (UTC) :That is simply hillarious :) I love the sword-nosed elemental drake. It's a shame you weren't a E/Me or a Me/E so we could see what attributes they had (since I guess those would've changed as well...) :) Winterbay 08:52, 7 March 2008 (UTC) Buff Now this skill is actually worth using. Zulu Inuoe 02:03, 7 March 2008 (UTC) ::Amen . . .took long enough but maybe this means they're finally looking at all the Underpowered Nightfall Elites and doing something about them for PvE (I hope they look at Paragons next ...and so-called Elite Necro Curses in Prophecies/Nightfall that don't even begin to measure up to S.S.) --'ilr' Do spirit's spells have a cast time? (If not then that anom is gone) Ezekiel [Talk] 02:07, 7 March 2008 (UTC) :Yes they do, but I doubt you can steal a spirit's attack.. I'll test in a second. Zulu Inuoe 02:21, 7 March 2008 (UTC) :Does not steal skills from spirits, tested at Isle of Nameless vs a Spirit of Shadowsong. Still interrupts them though. Zulu Inuoe 02:26, 7 March 2008 (UTC) ::Can you steal steal resource from the ghostly hero in HA? That would be fun, cap your own altar xD Frantic 12:13, 7 March 2008 (UTC) :::The ability to steal monster skills was a bug, and was removed shortly after being introduced. D: 12:14, 7 March 2008 (UTC) ::::I think this owns Psychic Instability quite badly. :/ 2 sec knockdown and 5 less energy cost, spell interrupt < To not be able to use certain skill for 5..20 seconds. J Striker 12:22, 7 March 2008 (UTC) :::::does anyone know if this works on res sig?--195.93.21.105 14:15, 7 March 2008 (UTC) ::::::Sure does. 14:17, 7 March 2008 (UTC) :::::::Ugh, this sucks now imo. At least before you could steal Assassins' dagger attacks (breaking their chain), and still take some poor ele's Resurrection Signet in RA. Now it disables for much less time, and you need good reflexes to use it successfully. Captain Yimuru 19:09, 7 March 2008 (UTC) ::::::::Skill > Getting lucky on a skill steal. Zulu Inuoe 19:31, 7 March 2008 (UTC) :::::::::It IS using skill to disable part of an assassins attack chain. 76.182.200.38 00:00, 8 March 2008 (UTC) ::::::::::Casting a skill that randomly disables a skill from an enemy, and hitting a vital part of a sin's chain, requires less skill than actively interrupting the same skill in a chain. Ezekiel [Talk] :::::::::::What skill? It just requires that the player be really twitchy. 222.153.231.53 02:06, 9 March 2008 (UTC) ::::::::::::You could just fire it into an assassin's chain and HOPE to hit something important, if you've got enough reflexes you could even hit a skill as they use it (being twitchy), or you could watch them, recognise their skills, and interrupt a specific important skill. Same goes for using this on any other class. Heroes can do the first 2, but they can't do the 3rd. Which is why a good player mesmer can shutdown an enemy with a single Diversion where a hero with 3 interrupts would interrupt 3 unimportant skills. Ezekiel [Talk] 02:19, 9 March 2008 (UTC) :::::::::::::No, being twitchy=good reflexes. So, the player gets the "specific important skill" with their extreme twitchyness. And wtf does Diversion have to do with ST? 222.153.231.53 02:23, 9 March 2008 (UTC) (Reset indent) /sigh. look, heroes have good reflexes, they can hit just about any skill. Given the choice, they will hit the first skill they can. "being twitchy=good reflexes." Good reflexes=being able to make an interrupt. Being able to MAKE an interrupt =/= knowing WHEN to make an interrupt. You can have the best reflexes in the world. But if I bait you with Barbed Signet and you interrupt that instead of something important, your reflexes are wasted because you didn't have the skill to know when to interrupt. (I used diversion as an example for a good player because it negates the need for reflexes and instead focuses on correct timing of use, making it valuable to a player, and weak on a hero) Ezekiel [Talk] 02:33, 9 March 2008 (UTC) :So? I'm talking about interrupting not taking any skill to run, Diversion is shutdown not interrupts so yeah. And not interrupting barbed signet doesn't require skill, that's just a player who knows that BS is crap. 222.153.231.53 02:47, 9 March 2008 (UTC) *"not interrupting barbed signet doesn't require skill, that's just a player who knows that BS is crap." ::how about *"saving an interrupt doesn't require skill, that's just a player who knows when not to waste it" ::Here's what I'm saying; Knowing when to save an interrupt, and when to use one, is a skill. (in particular it's a skill of judgement) ::Someone who doesn't know that BS is a waste to interrupt does not have the skill to know what's a good interrupt and what's a waste. ::The biggest, most blatant, example of this skill; is heroes. ::They have inhuman reflexes when it comes to interrupts. ::They have absolutely no concept of what's a good interrupt and what's a waste. ::To argue that there is no skill, and only reflexes is to say that a hero could use your skillbar better than you can. Ezekiel [Talk] 03:12, 9 March 2008 (UTC) :::That's not skill, that's knowledge of what skills are worth interrupting. Anyway, just drop it.....you're going to blow an eyeball. 222.153.231.53 03:14, 9 March 2008 (UTC) ::::Yeah I'm done here, time for lunch Ezekiel [Talk] 03:33, 9 March 2008 (UTC) ::::: 222.153, you don't realise how wrong you are. 90.196.125.73 11:45, 11 March 2008 (UTC) On Topic: I still would never use a spell steal without Sig of Illu, which cant be used with this.-- 03:38, 9 March 2008 (UTC) :This can give you infinite res sigs. ¬ Wizårdbõÿ777 (talk) 03:43, 9 March 2008 (UTC) eh my main is a mesmer, unfortunatly, and this skill still isn't all that. It's like Sig. of Illusions everyone was like OMFG IT GOT BUFFED LETS ABUSE IT! then over time everyone stopped using it and it was never nerfed...b/c its impractacal except for maybe AB and even then get an ele... This and the other domination/ispiration steal skills should make it when you steal the skill you gain maybe -3...-1 equal to your rank in dom/ins. Then Sig. of Ill. can give +1...3 It would certainly make them more viable. This skill is kinda useless really, yes its good at disabling and interrupting but I'd rather have just do that kinda Lost-Blue 13:17, 11 March 2008 (UTC) :So use the newly buffed Power Lock and take another elite. >.> 14:41, 11 March 2008 (UTC) ::I know it's an old conversation, but yeah, this skill has it's uses. Can be used to ruin opposing Aegis chains and you can use it with a well timed "Inspired Enchantment" to assist your own parties chains. This is only ever realistic in GvG though, and there the massive shutdown of Power Block or straight harassment of Psychic Distraction will be infinitely more useful. — Powersurge360 03:29, 15 September 2008 (UTC) Suggested Buff why not to make the skill you stole the same attibute level of your domination attibute level?? becauses imo apart Domination an no attribute skills... this skill sucks as it is now (stealing rez sig is just a lol) Big Bow 17:02, 25 March 2009 (UTC) :Then it would be a duplicate of Symbols of Inspiration. Meh. (T/ ) 01:11, 26 March 2009 (UTC) ::Symbols of Inspiration doens't disable it for your foe, it just copies it. Big Bow 04:51, 26 March 2009 (UTC) :::I know that. I'm just saying you'd then have two very similar elites, and then Symbols would be totally obsolete. (T/ ) 04:54, 26 March 2009 (UTC) Speaking of SoI, doesn't its Elite copying clause mean that the note saying this skill is the only way to snag a Form Elite is outdated? Or is there a Non-Form effect like Mimicry that isn't mentioned? *Doesn't have SoI yet* [[User:Hisoka_Kazemeijin|'Kaze']] 01:12, June 27, 2010 (UTC)